303. Serving Soupleaf Hot Pot w/ Nelson Lin
Hey, y'all. I'm Sandra Pham.
Minh:And I'm Minh Vu. Welcome to Asian in Austin. So, Sandra, we've got another exciting episode. And also, we are gonna be talking about hot pot.
Sandra:My favorite.
Minh:There is a a new place that opened up in the last year. Is that right?
Sandra:Yeah. I think so. But if you're not familiar, it's called Soupleaf, really popular. And yeah. I mean, if you're a hot pot connoisseur, specifically, I think of the Szechuan variety, you're probably familiar with soup leaf that's opened up in the, kinda, Crestview, Highland area.
Sandra:So we were fortunate enough to meet Nelson Lin who is the family operator of of Soup Leaf during South Buy, and so we were really excited on having the opportunity to bring him on the show.
Minh:Yeah. One thing that I was gonna say is I love that area of Crestview and that shopping center. I feel like just continues to have really cool spots that feel fun, new, good, and just a nice little variety of what kind of the Asian American community has to offer in Austin.
Sandra:Yeah. Mine too. I talk about this to nauseam, but I'm always in search of things that remind me of Houston and the Houston Asian food scene. And so that gives me a little piece of home.
Minh:Totally. Well, should we hear a little bit more about Nelson?
Sandra:Yes. Let's get into it. So Nelson Lin is a retired Chinese restaurant child laborer. These are his words, by the way. With decades of experience in the food industry and shoving down his feelings, he currently takes credit for running Soupleaf Hot Pot with his mom and brother, which is Austin's first all you can eat hot pot restaurants.
Sandra:They are also looking to open up another restaurant in Austin, so stay tuned. He also runs a meme group called Subtle Asian Real Estate with over 23,000 members helping each other get from 0 to 1 on their first home. Subtle Asset Management, his investment company, primarily focuses on funding affordable housing with their $35,000,000. He has degrees in engineering from Columbia University and Cal Poly SLO, and was formally a techie at Apple, Microsoft, and Brookfield Asset Management. Let's get into the episode with Nelson.
Sandra:Hey, Nelson. Welcome to the Agent and Austin podcast. Hello.
Nelson:How you doing?
Sandra:We are so excited to have you. Our podcast, we like to welcome our guest and give you an opportunity to provide your ethnicities, your pronouns, and any other identities that you wanna share.
Nelson:Yeah. He, him, and 99 generations of rice farmer Chinese. Like, there's no special sparkles or anything. And we've been rice farmers up until, like, a generation ago. So that's my identity, unfortunately.
Sandra:And tell us what how's 2024 been for you so far? I know you were just sharing fun vacation stories with us, but how's overall the year going?
Nelson:Yeah. 2024 is going good. Definitely a year where if you do business, it's down compared to, like, a year, 2 years, especially prior. So it's a year where things get to slow down, which is kind of nice in some ways, but then also, you know, like, look at your bank account, and you feel a pain of hurt in another. So there's 2 parts to it.
Sandra:Yeah. That makes sense. For those that aren't super familiar with your background when you're referring to your business, can you share a little bit, about your career and both on the restaurant side and the real estate side on what you do?
Nelson:Yeah. So I started working in these restaurants when I was 5. The longest story is we are from this region of China called Fujian. I don't know if you have encountered it. We're pretty much known as the rednecks of China.
Nelson:We're, like, the. Like, we we have our own intonation and accent when we speak Mandarin that if you're from Shanghai, we sound like, hey out of y'all. What are you doing on these here? Like, you know, we get that we got that country twang. All the men are known for gambling and, like, goofing off every weekend and, like, fishing and, like, just leaving the the wives to do all the work.
Nelson:So we are essentially the trash of China to some degree. And a large part of that is a lot of us are uneducated. We are this backwater region because we're so cut off from the rest of the country. It's mountains on one side pretty much, and then the ocean on the other. And because of that, we were always harder to lease.
Nelson:Now back in the late eighties, early nineties, large exodus of us went into New York, Chinatown in particular. And so much so that we became the predominant ethnic Chinese group in New York Chinatown, the Fujianese. Like, our dialect was kinda heard everywhere, and now we're gentrified out into, like, Flushing and, like, Brooklyn and all that. And when we came here, all this did restaurants. It was because the restaurant industry was just so lucrative compared to what they used to do in the past that they would ignore all the bad parts of running a restaurant right across the street from someone else doing the same exact thing, and then driving each other to charge nothing for these restaurants.
Nelson:And that's a context under which my family entered in the United States. If you go to New York Chinatown, you know, nowadays, you still have a few Fujianese, but a lot of them moved away since then. But back in the nineties, it became ultra competitive. And so we started branching out, and a portion of us stayed in New York, but a large portion left. And they opened a Chinese buffet in Omaha, Nebraska, or Poughkeepsie, Idaho, or middle of nowhere town that was not ready for this $9 all you can eat orange chicken to take over.
Nelson:Right? And that's the context in which a lot of us grew up from the Fujianese community, at least in my generation. And so I've lived in a different city for pretty much every 5 years that I'd been alive, Just hop in from different restaurants to restaurants that my mom was working for. We ended up in San Diego, and that's where we started doing our own buffets, but I've been working since I was 5. Yeah.
Nelson:So Chinese restaurants is the context in which that I've existed, breathed, and lived. Like, you ever get curious when there's the application that you had to do in college, and you're like, how is somebody in college supposed to have 13 years of work experience? And I was like, actually, it's not that if you just had a cash register when you were 12, you could have pulled some hours together. And so that's the story. That's where I met restaurants.
Nelson:And then I went to college. I was like, screw this. I'm going to compartmentalize all this childhood labor trauma and put it somewhere else, and I'm gonna be an engineer. And so I worked at Apple and Microsoft. I did tech for a long time.
Nelson:And then pandemic hit. So the buffets we had in San Diego, my mom, you know, we closed them in the pandemic. You know, I was in Austin, and so she wanted to follow me up because I think I mentioned at the beginning, I have this teenage sister who is just the absolute worst. I love her so much, but she's the worst person right now. But I was also the worst person.
Nelson:They're gonna be wrong. So I'm like, I get it. You know? My mom was like, I need help with this. And so she came out to Austin for that reason, so we could work on, like, co parenting with me, my brother, and my mom on my sister.
Nelson:You know, my dad is one of those traditional who's off fishing somewhere and, getting remarried in China, someone half her age. So that is the context. Pandemic happened, and my mom said, I want to open a hot pot restaurant in Austin because there wasn't any. And, it took us 2 years. It was very scary, excruciating 2 years.
Nelson:But then we opened 2 lines, and a lot of people who kept telling us, dude, we've been waiting for hop off for a while, and we're so excited that this is here, and we're glad that you're doing it, like, right, which is something I I was surprised by. And I think that has been a source of a lot of joy for me till I get to find community in the sense. I mean, I get to move people in Austin who are doing things that are cool. That that's the biggest thing. Like, you open a Asian restaurant in San Diego, you're dead to every other restaurateur in San Diego.
Nelson:Right? They're like, how dare you try to steal food to my child's mouth? I hope you die in debt. I hope your children have been poverty. I hope you never get out of I hope the business close to that.
Nelson:Right? In Austin, we opened -- every Asian restaurateur we knew in town were like, hey. want to support you guys because we need a hot pot and, like, there's not enough of us here. And, like, I felt that there's a huge amount of camaraderie that does not exist in other cities where it feels like Asian restaurants are all competitive.
Nelson:And, I really like that portion. And at the same time, the tours have been very friendly as well. It's just the Texas thing, and I guess that's been a big part of my life for the last year since we opened. So that's simply that's a family business. It's me, my mom, and brother.
Nelson:Right now, my brother is training elsewhere, though. We're trying to get ready for another restaurant concept in Austin, ideally. Mostly because we know it takes 2 years to build anything, so it gives us a lot of time to get ready and prep our next concept, hopefully.
Minh:Nelson, I appreciate you going through that with me because I've just learned a lot of things that I didn't know before either. And so I think that's really also just the way that you're able to share that story. So you have it down, I feel like.
Nelson:And Oh, thank you.
Minh:I'm curious, like, when did that come to you? Because I feel like, as kids, we are thrust into a situation. And then it's only until later we kind of connect the dots of, like, oh, well, this is where my family comes from. This is the history of the region that they were from. This is like you know, you've done such a good job.
Minh:I feel like of connecting the dots that lead you to where you and your family are today. And I'm curious when did that happen for you? Or was there an impetus for you that that got you there?
Nelson:A lot of it is talking to family, but I learned my history from a white person. Fun fact. There's a book called Snakehead, which is the term for a human smuggler. And there's this lady, Sister Ping, back in the nineties, who was really well known for being the best smuggler. She's actually the most successful human smuggler in American history.
Nelson:Fun fact. That's our portion of the American pie. That's us. And so it definitely was something I was always curious about, for sure. But we have never like, I meet other Chinese people, for example, whose parents, when they immigrated, had a fully different story.
Nelson:That's actually majority of people I meet. Their parents are doctors back in their hometown, and, you know, they came to the US and had to get a new degree, or they were engineers and got a master's in America. That's how they got here. My mom has a 3rd grade education. Almost everyone I knew from my hometown has, like, a 3rd grade education.
Nelson:And so all we do is entrepreneurship everywhere we go. We build things. Right? Of the 10 richest people in Malaysia, 5 of them are of Fujianese, ethnic descent. Right?
Nelson:And so everywhere we go, we usually do food products. Jollibee, for example, is Filipino, but it was created by someone who's the son of Fujianese immigrants in the Philippines. Alright? So that was always appealing me. I was always curious, because I'm like, why are all these other kids doing better in school or, like, had a better idea of, like, how you're supposed to get in college?
Nelson:All these other things that luckily, I never shut up. So I keep asking people questions, and I keep pressuring. The rest of my family's introverts. I I think I was dropped on the head in in a certain way, and that's why I keep being aggressive about, okay, how can I get this solved? And and I don't know.
Nelson:Can I ask somebody how to get the solved? I've been the beneficiary of knowing that I'm too dumb to solve it on my own, but being loud enough to constantly pester someone else who might know better than I do. And so that's kind of where it started from. And then where a lot of it cemented for me was obviously talking to elders, but also there's a book called Snakehead. It was written by the guy who pretty much brought down the Opiate Empire.
Nelson:He eventually went out to write that book. It was one of his earlier books. It was, like, the 3rd book he ever wrote. It was, like, something O'Keefe, and he wrote the snake head, but he also wrote the book about how the Sacklers ruined America with the opium epidemic, and he was a huge part of that. And so I'm like, okay.
Nelson:Cool. You know, like, that's a good pedigree that I can kinda follow. And that's kinda where it also needed with, like, learning from a white person and how it all ties together.
Minh:That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. I mean, I too, like, in some ways, I'm, like, watching the Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam War. So, like, you know, we get it where we can and then we supplement it with actual firsthand accounts where we're able to from elders and things like that.
Minh:It's Yeah. Maybe like the hyphenate American way. You know? I don't know. Yeah.
Minh:Yeah. I'm curious. So you mentioned this a little bit, but I guess it was from what brought you to Austin specifically?
Nelson:I was working in Chicago at the time at this company called McMaster Carr. Great company. Lovely people. But I missed sunlight. And so I was like, you know, where is good sun, and it seems like is a good spot.
Nelson:I had a friend from college who was in Austin, and so I just was like, alright. I'm coming. I'm visiting. And then I lived in an RV for, like, the 1st month that I was here just, like, testing out Austin for a bit before I, like, figured out a place that we're actually wanted to live. Luckily, she bought a house right around the same time that I was like, alright.
Nelson:I'm gonna plant my roots here. And so I'll just like, I was her tenant for, like, for the first few years I lived in Austin. So that's how I ended up here. I love the culture. I love the people.
Nelson:It's like I said earlier, it's not just the Asian restaurateur. It's like a culture of entrepreneurship, but also that people are open to it. New ideas and being more frank to some degree on certain things that I feel like was harder to do in other places like years ago. And it's really hard to, like, enter into the boys club or whatever. Austin kinda doesn't really have that.
Nelson:It's the ground floor for a lot of things, including Asian food. That was the biggest complaint I heard whenever I talked to people about Austin. They're like, yeah. The ethnic food here is terrible. But in my head, that's actually, like, an opportunity, especially if enough people complain about it.
Nelson:That's something people want. Why do you not I mean, it's exciting because you'd be on the ground floor to provide a service for and serve the people who essentially they are literally asking for this. They're they're begging for it, and I think it's a lot of fun to be at the service of the people of Austin in that way. So
Sandra:Yeah. That's something I thought was really interesting when you were sharing was just the reception of opening restaurants. Obviously, your family has a long history of opening restaurants in different cities, but the reception in San Diego versus Austin. Right? Like, it feels like in Austin, you felt a lot more warmth and welcome in bringing hot pot into the community, other entrepreneurs or restaurateurs coming to you and saying, hey.
Sandra:How can we help and support you? So I'm curious on what you think, why the AAPI restaurant community is so vastly different than some of these other bigger cities.
Nelson:Yes. There's a lot of ways. It's definitely, like, one, it's lacking, and so people don't feel like it's competition. They feel like they want more. I don't wanna be like, you know, entrepreneurship, growth mindset, you know.
Nelson:I I that's all I'm trying to say, but I feel like there's a bit of that here in Austin where for people, they think that the pie is growing rather than, like, there's a shrinking pool that you have to constantly fight for. And maybe just come up with the culture when you move to the city, but I know sat within a lot of the restaurateurs in town. Whereas, definitely in San Diego, there's a dichotomy for sure of, like, Asian mom and pop businesses and then, like, the more Americanized ones. And the Asian mom and pop ones are definitely, like, how do I retain as much of the pie as possible? How do I cut costs anywhere I can?
Nelson:Obviously, service doesn't matter. We're just here to make this business run on bare minimum so we can charge bare minimum, but then the people who are eating here don't care that you can't speak English, that you're not running things maybe the right way. You're here because the food is good and the pricing is great. Right? But you might also feel offended if they were to raise prices some degree and made it, like, prettier as a result.
Nelson:I think there's this thing within the Asian community that we're used to cheap pricing, and it feels like they're betraying us because there used to be a spot for just us. And then once it normally becomes just us, then and the prices go up. It's like we're getting gentrified out of the food to some degree. And I get that perspective. Right?
Nelson:But I also know and I've seen the smaller mom and pop restaurateurs who are never able to retire because they can't charge high enough prices. But they're okay with that because they're the best opportunity that they had given their resources. They likely have zero education. They came from a country that they can't go back to, and they have zero English navigation ability. And they depend mostly on their 11 year old son to pretend to be them on the phone to, like, work and make everything happen.
Nelson:And to some degree, those people that you're like, oh, I I hope they do well. You're somehow also, like, offended if they actually do well. And I noticed that there's, like, this weird brain dichotomy because we get offended when Asian food is too expensive, and it feels less authentic when we do that. But on the other side, that's how you actually are able to sustain yourself, like an actual living wage, you know, so you're not pinching pennies all the time to just exist. And I see that a lot in, like, the small amount of pop businesses.
Nelson:That's what happened to prior hot pot restaurants before we opened. Austin did not support that for the longest time. Now it probably does. You know, there's a lot of techies who moved in who miss a piece of California or New York, And Hotpot is a piece of that, but so is dim sum. So it's like these other items that you see in these other cities, but you're used to the pricing in those other cities.
Nelson:And so you feel I see people get offended by the idea of, like, look, I want dim sum, but why can't it be, you know, $3 a plate? Why can't I have some mom and pop who doesn't speak English, who's running themselves into the ground physically and mentally so they can support my rock bottom pricing that I can eat at twice a week or something. Right? It's really hard to sustain when you're, like, a smart business like that without seeing those people essentially, like, run themselves physically into the ground. And that's the only time that they retire.
Sandra:Yeah. You shared a lot of things I think I wanna dissect and kinda dive into. I think the first piece is what do you contribute to the success of SoupLeaf? Do you think it is because of the changing population, folks coming from the coast that are maybe a little bit more used to, again, the pricing and the things and really want a piece of home and, therefore, are really searching for that and have found that? Or do you think it is just overall just the changing taste of the city overall, and there's just more craving diversity in food and being curious about hot pot.
Sandra:Like, what do you contribute to soup beef, or do you just feel like you struck at a really good time after the pandemic and just things worked out really well? Like, what is your perspective?
Nelson:So it's a little bit of everything. It's like you said well, first, like you said, Asian culture cold now. I I thanks, the main pandemic, it ended, and dating has never been easier ever since anime and kpop became. I think there's a trend that also follows with Asian food though. Right?
Nelson:And I've seen that spike generally happen because people are now more open to the idea of, like, trying kimchi or these things that years ago, you would have been made fun of for eating at lunch, you know, on a cafeteria. So I think food trend follows the growth in the population of Asian culture. You know, thank you BTS for making that cool for us. But the other thing that happened, like you said, is the demographics in Austin have changed as well. A large portion of the tech people who moved in missed a piece of wherever they came from.
Nelson:But we also get a lot of locals who've been here forever who've been saying, I used to go to this other place, like, the way back when it closed, and now this is the only other option. And, you know, is a franchise, but they probably still ran it like a yellow mop bucket restaurant that focused on the predominantly Asian community for a long time. And this is a hard conversation that I had with my mom of, like, do we make this more authentic, or do we try to appeal to a little more of the mass market? And, obviously, we'd love to stick to the yeah. We wanna serve you, like, duck feet, beef tongue, and all those, like, all the fun stuff.
Nelson:But at the same time, we saw the 2 prior businesses that closed literally 2 years before we signed a lease. It was pre pandemic management. So they closed because of the business wasn't good. It didn't have anything to do with the pandemic closing them. Right?
Nelson:And so you see that, and then you start thinking, okay. I want to support them because I would love to give people what they want, but what is it that people want? And so a lot of it was we kept tuning the menu to try to adjust for what do people in Austin actually eat. A lot of franchises tend to start with, here's an overarching menu. Everyone has to order the same thing from these suppliers.
Nelson:We're not that, you know, we don't even have a guidebook. We, we made a lot of mistakes at the beginning. We we thought we'd try something different because we knew Austin was heavy vegetarian, for example. So we really try to highlight the veggie portions of it. Right?
Nelson:And right now, we do have a strong, like, loyal vegetarian fan base. But obviously, the people who come to hot pot are like, I want meat. You know? I want the meat. And so we adjusted because that's what people and, you know, that's all you can do sometimes.
Nelson:And we try to listen and we adapt as quickly as we can based on what it is people are asking from us. And so I think one of the things that also have made Hotpot do well is just we adapt pretty quickly because we're just we're here. We're on the ground. We're we're there every day. I use it like my office.
Nelson:It's either me, my mom, or my brother. One of us is usually there every day, and so that I think allows us to make changes a lot quicker. We're like a start up, but we'll never make start up money. That's the fun part. And, I think being able to spend all this time with my family has made me a lot more fulfilled than half year as a person, which is not something I expected.
Nelson:And I think that carries on to our food, but also carries on to our employees. Our employees, I think, are top tier. And if you talk to them, I think a good portion of them feel like we've also have had a significant impact on their lives. Not just because our average employee gets, like, 40 to 50 an hour after tips, which I think is, like, top 1% of pay for Austin. But at the same time, we try to take as much interest as we can in their lives and, like, their personal lives.
Nelson:I think that's that's why we actually have really good retention. I think being really local helps with that, and showing up pretty often, I think, is a is a big part of what makes the food really good. But if you want actually the the simple truth of it, it's we have good momentum. That's it. Food tastes good.
Nelson:It's fresh when you have good turnover. As long as you can keep pumping people in and out and rotating the food, it stays fresh. And so that would probably be the actual secret. Huge volume, decent pricing, but as long as the food stays fresh, people just keep coming back.
Sandra:Yeah. It warmed my heart when you were talking about, I think, what kind of fulfills you and and fills your bucket is being able to run this business with your parents. Right? I think that is a very unique aspect. I personally could never in a 1000000 years imagine running a business and being in business with family members, but I love that you really enjoy that aspect.
Sandra:There's also just something profound of being able to share a love of food with our parents. For sure, it's something that connects me to my family and men to his. So it's beautiful you're able to do that, but also translate that into a profitable business. But I'm I'm curious what other aspects of running the business have been really challenging.
Nelson:The way we do service. So, for example, you know, like those Toast machines that they, like, put in your face to the tip? Believe it or not, the tip goes up because someone's holding it right in your face right there. Right? So my mom tried to get these, like, janky, like, Chinese iPad tablet ones that were, like, a lot cheaper than using, like, a software like Toast.
Nelson:But you have to use, like, 2 separate. You you have an iPad and you had a card reader as well, and then it it just got too cranky and confusing. And you had to, like, press translate to English on these things. Like, you know, like, most of our staff does not speak Mandarin. But, you know, she's from the mindset of, like, how do I minimize costs everywhere?
Nelson:And if she could, she'd run everything on pen and paper if it meant saving money. But I am like a techy, unfortunately, you know, years of doing software have taught me, like, there's better ways to do this. It's worth the money to, like, offload this to someone else, you know, to some degree. And so I had a fighter use Toast, like a POS software that everyone knows here, but, like, most places, small Asian businesses don't because they're like, I don't wanna take on that cost when pen and paper work perfectly fine. You know?
Nelson:And then tax season comes or like, you know, you gotta do accounting all of a sudden. It's like, oh my gosh. Why are there so many papers? I think I really convinced my mom of it mostly because we saw that the tips were significantly higher, which also allowed our employees to be happier and stay more. And I was like, look, the cost that we're gonna shell out for this extra Toast software is basically gonna translate to even higher tips for the employees.
Nelson:So if we're ever worried about retention, this is not gonna be a problem anymore. And, you know, that's something that I did, like, talk to them all about. I was like, look, I know you're used to just rotating people in and out, but sometimes with these types of industries, especially for hot pot do you have any servers where we have to train from scratch on how to eat hot pot? It's not easy. So the only people who do not eat hotpot are, like, our college student employees, and they'll leave us in, like, 2 years.
Nelson:Right? So, like, I'm trying to think further ahead than how do I minimize cost today, but, like, how do I have longevity tomorrow so I don't have to teach everyone how to eat hot pot all over again every single week for restaurants that have high turnover? I think paying attention to employees as well as something that my my mom doesn't like, she was like, why are you talking to the employees? I'm like, because it's slow. What what else are you gonna do here?
Nelson:You know? I can't ask him about what they did last weekend and a lot of them are in college or like little bit older. They're all, yeah, you got smashed last night, you know, went to like 36. I'm like, yeah, but like you just let him talk about it along with Gen Z and you're emotionally validating them. And that's usually, like, part of managing people based on different generations.
Nelson:If they're, like, millennial or older, usually, you don't have to coach them as much. You just like, I just need you to do this. And then, like, they'll do it. But for the younger generation, it's like, okay. Tell me how you're feeling first.
Nelson:I'd say, now I need you to do this though. You know? Like, there's there's--
Minh:not you clocking these
Minh:generations and their work styles, but that sounds kind of right. And we have that in the office too a little bit, or just like there's different ways of people that like to work, and that makes a lot of sense. I think there's a lot that you've shared that just has me thinking about a lot, but I really appreciate you know, I think there is sometimes a struggle, especially with newer Asian restaurants of like, is it too Americanized? Is it not authentic enough? This like concept of authenticity really comes into question, especially these days, I feel like.
Minh:And I have to say the way that you've described soup leaf and kind of y'all's approach to it feels like the best of both worlds.
Nelson:Yeah. Big fight that we've had is always about the soup flavoring. Right? What's funny is most people will say like, hey, your broth isn't, like, authentic enough. You know, it's, like, too watered down.
Nelson:But if you talk to, like, Chinese Chinese people, their broth is always, like, water. The soup that you get in a lot of places in, like, Southern China, like, it's pretty much close to water, and people mostly go heavy sauces, and then they focus on the freshness of ingredients, the flavor of the soup, and they drink the soup afterwards. Americans in Austin are so used to Texas and Dallas, like the MSG packets that they're like, why is this not flavored right off the bat? Right? And so that was something I was like, yo, we should just go and, like, dunk the MSG that they want.
Nelson:Like, people are asking for it. But my mom is trying to hold on to, like, let's stick with, like, light enough flavor where we can keep the Asian Asian customers. But these Asian Americans who keep asking for the MSG heavy flavor are the ones, like, writing reviews saying, like, this is too bland. But that one is, like, hard because everyone has different tastes, some degree. Right?
Nelson:And it's just a question about who you're trying to appeal to. And one of the things we realize is a lot of Asian Americans don't even know their own culture. They have this idea of American Asian food so much so that even with pot pot that they've been, like, you know, pushed in one direction. So it's hard sometimes to figure out what the correct flavoring is or the correct thing is. But that's what I was saying earlier is if you're on the ground, you're constantly asking people, like, what do you want?
Nelson:Tell me what you'd want. That allows us to change things fast enough, hopefully, that we can give people what they're looking for. You know, when I'm there, I usually ask 1 or 2 people a day just like, hey. How's your experience? How's the food?
Nelson:What could we improve? Family, we do so goof here in Austin. What is it that we can do to make better if you've eaten there before? Right? I think that actually comes from the tech side as well.
Nelson:Product market fit. They just constantly ask people, what is it that you want?
Sandra:So you kinda hint to that, and I don't know how much you can share about potentially a new concept. But kind of based on you being boots on the ground, heavily invested in the restaurant scene and where things are going, what do you foresee for the food scene, specifically for Asian food in Austin?
Nelson:So I do commercial real estate for previous contacts. And we're looking for a new location, either leasing or just taking over the entire shopping mall. The other thing that people don't realize is how hard it is to actually build in the city of Austin. If you look at the zoning map, for example, and you just Google it, I wanna say a good 80% of it is just single family zoning. So you already have a limited amount of commercial space that you can build on, and then the city makes it really hard for you to build.
Nelson:On average, it takes a restaurant almost 2 years to open. Our competitor, KPOT , down south, they took them, like, a little over 2 years, and they were former restaurant. They were Luby's, you know, before they took over. We were originally an office space. It took us 22 months.
Nelson:And so there's a reason why there's a new influx of hotpot restaurants. It's because they waited for us to open first. So they wanted to see how would hop up play out while letting someone else see this risk. And the reason they do this is because their idea is they'll out compete you, you know, whatever large national chain comes in, and they'll eat your lunch in, like, 8 months. That's not the case in Austin.
Nelson:In Austin, we were a first mover. We have a 2 year head start. The restaurants that waited to sign their lease until after we opened, they are already a year and a half minimum behind. The city makes a park for you to build, particularly if you're, like, an Asian business. And the reason why a lot of these new ones that are coming into town are, like, large national chains, and not as many are, like, small mom and pop ones.
Nelson:It's more expensive, and it takes longer. Right? That's what's limiting Austin from creating a great Asian food culture, in my opinion. This year, restaurants have kind of declined already. The pandemic boom has largely went back to steady state.
Nelson:There's 3 new hotpot restaurants opening in Austin. Few years ago, there were 0. Right? So how much hot pot can Austin really support? We don't really know, but it's probably not 4.
Nelson:That being said, that huge influx is not just hot pot, it's Korean barbecue. 2 years ago, there was one Korean barbecue restaurant maybe. Now there are 2 Korean barbecues coming into Austin. It's pretty much any food trend, like Asian food trend you see in Austin. Maybe you're looking at it and you're like, why are 3 of them opening all at once?
Nelson:You know? Well, they're all going through the same permitting cycle. This city makes it so hard for you to build. But we also realize that that's a benefit. It's a bonus.
Nelson:If you're the 1st mover and you're doing a product that people really want and something that doesn't exist yet in Austin, you have a huge head start. And so that's kinda what we're focused on next. That is what we're looking for. Something that Austin hasn't seen yet that might be very popular elsewhere. But because we have such a long head start, that's our goal.
Minh:One thing I just wanna say also is, like, you know, you're talking about what is the success of Soup Leaf and how y'all have been able to ride this momentum, And it's a little bit everything. I just wanna also name the secret sauce being like you and your family and your experience and like what you bring to the work that y'all try to do. I think it's very evident even in the way that you talk about it, that that is one piece too, that you just have inherently through running this family family operation. So I wanna also be able to just touch on very briefly if you can, because you mentioned you were in commercial real estate as well and that you founded Subtle Asian Real Estate (SARE).
Nelson:Yeah.
Minh:And I'm wondering if you can just very quickly talk a little bit about that group and what it is.
Nelson:And Yeah.
Minh:Yeah.
Nelson:You know, fun fact, it was a meme group I made in Chicago, and it was supposed to be fun. And what happened was a lot of people ended up asking, how do I buy my first house? Right? And like I said, I've been very lucky in life. I was in tech.
Nelson:My signing bonus was enough for the down payment, basically, to buy a house in Chicago, which most people can't do if you're, like, still in California and New York. I just happened to find my way to the Midwest. I had a 4plex, and I lived in 1 unit and then renovated each unit at a time. And I started telling the story to other people. And then, you know, SARE as well came along.
Nelson:It was a Facebook group. You know, it was a solid Asian trend. A lot of people were doing it at the time. We're only 23,000 people, but we're a very tight knit group. We've been doing the annual conference and get, like, 400 people every year for that, for example.
Nelson:And they have, like, some magic that kinda happens, and people relate on different level. And almost all of them have this idea of passive income and getting out of their job. And then my job is to tell them, it's not that easy, takes a long time, don't think it's quick. It's really just a Facebook group where we organize events, people show up. I'm not doing single family anymore.
Nelson:I'm mostly doing, like, the larger commercial stuff. We focus on funding affordable housing. We actually have a project off of Park South and Slaughter. It's 300 units, and we're working with the city to build essentially 300 units and half of it's affordable. So that's kind of what I've always wanted to do.
Nelson:But a lot of the people I'm talking to, I was literally there when I was starting out buying my first house in Chicago. I was like, how do you get a loan? How do you I'm worried about the building, like, falling apart on me. Right? Like, inspections are the scariest thing.
Nelson:And the pandemic was great for it because some people were buying the house for the first time, and I would just Zoom walk through with them on the inspection. There's this woman, Susan, out in South Carolina. She was pregnant at the time doing these walk throughs. And I remember we did the Zoom, and I was like, here's my estimate of what I think construction's gonna look like. And then she took that to general contractor, and the contractor matched the numbers, same as mine.
Nelson:And so I gave her enough confidence to say, oh, okay. This is it. You know, this is all I need. I need another voice saying, no. No.
Nelson:No. This is a good idea. This isn't too bad. You know? And so she bought the house, and it went up, like, 1% or something or afterwards.
Nelson:And so that was one of those things where, oh, this this is starting to work. And every once in a while, we'll get a message that was like, hey. This Facebook group changed my life. Even though we're like, no. No.
Nelson:This is me. It's okay. You don't have to you don't have to sugarcoat it. We're just here to have fun and enjoy each other's presence. I love the community, and I think that's also what dragged me with Soup Leaf.
Nelson:Culture building with Subtle Asian Real Estate really helped me with the culture building in simply for sure as well with the employees. Yeah. We had our 1 year recently, and, you know, I was asking him, like, you know, are all of your friends other Soup Leaf people? And they're like, yeah. Honestly, they're like, my friends.
Nelson:And so I enjoy that part where we get to touch a bit of their lives. That is what brings me to it, like the community building. But, yeah, I'm still, like, corporate landlord sometimes, and right now I'm seeking out a new shopping center. So or just retail restaurant space. So if anyone's selling anything, please reach out to me.
Minh:Yeah. We would've ever had that plug on our podcast before, but I could've
Nelson:Sell Sell me your shopping center. I know you're listening to this. Someone's gotta own something.
Sandra:I'm sure somebody does. But I wanna go back to the point of I think it is very evident, I think, to to me that what is contributing to the success of SoupLeaf and the Subtle Asian Real Estate Group (SARE), I think, is it feels like you're super focused on community and recognizing how important community is in supporting each other, like providing the ladder for each other to kind of go up the rung. Right? Like, it's not about, hey. This is my piece of the pie.
Sandra:I'm gonna keep this. It's, how can I also contribute back to the community in which I live in? And and so I think that's very admirable because I I absolutely think that that's what contributes to the success, right, is is giving back. And so, yeah, shout out to you, and I think it's great that you do that. Wanna leave on kind of a one last question on just what are your key tips for specifically that are folks who are listening and are thinking about, like, I wanna be Nelson.
Sandra:I wanna think about how to build generational wealth. I'm probably not gonna open a restaurant, but how do I start investing in real estate, or how do I dabble? How do I how do I even start?
Nelson:Obviously, take everything you say with grain of salt. I have a different experience than most. The most important thing is actually that you start doing it. So buy a house, whatever it is, and then rent out one room at a time. Right?
Nelson:If you wanna get started in real estate, that's literally the easiest way to do it. The government has literally created loans that are cheaper than anything else, fixed, and the best type of loan is meant for people who are living in their house. And so if you can buy something that's got a 2 or 4 unit, rent out the other rooms or other units, that's the first step. I would do that first. And then if you realize you hate it, then you should pit it.
Nelson:A lot of people never take the first step. That's the scariest part. Going from 0 to 1, and that's kind of the mission for SARE. That's kind of what a lot of us gather around on. The fact that we don't have these rich uncles who have, like, 100 of units.
Nelson:So we have to become our own rich uncles. And no one is there to walk you through the steps or talk about, like, here's how you do your first one. So if you have a local real estate meetup, you know, we do one in Austin once a month, but there's other places, you know, whatever city you're in. You know, not even our meetup. There's, like, probably 4 or 5 other real estate meetups in the city of Austin itself.
Nelson:Right? Just go to 1. Find someone who's done it before and then just kick their brain. Right? That's how I actually bought my first house.
Nelson:I went to a meetup, and then I was just standing outside. And then the organizer was like, hey. Did you find what you were looking for? And I was like, kind of. I really need an agent.
Nelson:I don't really know what I'm doing. He's like, oh, I'm an agent. And then now we're still friends. He he became my mentor. And so our mentor was big, but really, I would say those are the 3 things that I would recommend if you wanna get started on quote unquote generational wealth.
Nelson:This is not generational wealth that I'm talking on. This is just like, do you wanna just retire on it for yourself? Like, that's really, I think, all people need. I don't plan on keeping the money. I'm trying to give it away by the time I die, for example.
Nelson:A lot of people think that they need more than they actually need to survive, but those are my few steps. House hack, ideally. Go to a meetup and find a mentor. Right? With those three things, I think it'll get you probably 80% of the way there, and then it just point the trigger.
Nelson:I think the mentor is the biggest thing that a lot of the Asian community doesn't have, and that's where SARE came in handy, where a lot of people don't know somebody else in their life who's a proper investor. For example, you might know someone's mom or dad who's, like, got 3 or 4 homes that they paid all cash, and then they go and they repair the toilets themselves. I've repaired so many toilets. I'm like, please plumber, take my money. Like, I get it.
Nelson:I'll give you whatever you want. I don't wanna swap out a wax ring anymore. Right? But a lot of these Asian landlords, they become some more because they try to do everything themselves. And no one really taught them, and they just kinda go for it and they buy all cash, which is probably not the best use case of their mind.
Nelson:Right? And so get educated and then find somebody who's done it before the proper way. There's a reason why there aren't that many Asian commercial real estate investors, but there are a bunch of Asian investors who might own, like, 2 or 3 homes. But you look at the biggest funds, it's like Wall Street, chock full of frumpy old white dudes who went to Harvard.
Minh:So Nelson, it's been really, really good to just pick your brain, learn more about your experience, what led you to the great opportunities that you've been able to have. We're gonna wrap the episode with a question that we ask all of our guests and then do a little bit of a rapid fire. But to start off, what does your Asian American identity mean to you today? What's your relationship with that?
Nelson:You know, it's funny. High school is the first time where I was surrounded by a bunch of other Asian people. I grew up my entire life usually being, like, the only Asian person in, like, the city or the town that I was in, because like, in Omaha, Nebraska, for example. Even in, like, the buffets that we run, they're, like, predominantly Hispanic neighborhoods. And so it's funny because I always thought, like okay.
Nelson:So first, I'm like a in the closet anime fan for most of my teenagers because it wasn't cool yet. Right? But when I went to high school, I remember seeing people who were really into k pop. I just didn't African that people could be so open about being interested in something like that. I was like, that that nerd, you know, I'll lose it.
Nelson:I'm really judgmental, I think, in high school. You know? Like, I was just not a great person in general, probably. Like like, most of us are great people in high school anyways. But I, in particular, remember thinking that particularly things that are Asian, and it comes from a place of insecurity.
Nelson:I felt that it was kind of an embarrassment. You know, I definitely carried that with me. And I think it wasn't until I got older, went to college, I started to find more camaraderie and get to know more other Asian people. And I think that changed a lot for me. That being said, I am very cognizant of how it affects where I am right now in the general American Zeitgeist.
Nelson:But I also am aware that it has provided me with a lot of opportunity, even though when I was younger, I thought it provided me with mostly setbacks. And my only concern is at some point that I might change again. And I worry about what happens if, you know, I have kids and they have to deal with the with, like, another wave against them. Right? Because things goes they go in ups and downs.
Nelson:And for example, if we go to war with China, you know, all of a sudden, it becomes a lot less cool to, like, be really into Asian stuff. And what happens then? Do we have to embrace the 19 sixties when we had the before we, like, got rid of the anti Chinese immigration laws. Right? And these things go go up and down.
Nelson:You know, China's scary again, like, in the last 10 years. 10 years ago, I was like, ah, China's great. We love capitalism in China. You know? Like but they're kinda communist, but, like, they're not communist.
Nelson:And then the vernacular is totally shifted. So that's my main concern. It's, like, these things are shifty, and my worry is, like, right now, with my Asian identity, you know, I'm grateful for it. I'm happy that I turned out the way that I am, but I worry for all the people who come down the line.
Minh:I appreciate that answer. I think that makes a lot of sense, and it's always a complex one. It's an internal and personal one, and it constantly evolves and changes. And having to react to how the world around you also evolves and changes, just like you were saying. I think that's a really real aspect of someone's relationship with their identity that I don't think we've heard a lot about on this podcast.
Minh:So I appreciate you sharing that. Alright. We're gonna do some rapid fire. So hopefully end on a like their mood a little bit. But Okay.
Minh:Just first thing that comes to your mind, what does self care look like for you? You you've just shared you do a lot. You work a lot. You like so what does that self care look like for you?
Nelson:Black tar heroin. I wish I actually was addicted to heroin. It's like it'd be so much easier to, like, just stop. I think I just need to go back to the gym, though. That's, like, my big saying.
Nelson:I I think I need to, like, get more regulated. And so I think self care is taking care of myself next June. Okay. Good. Yeah.
Nelson:And copious video games. Delta is this, like, emulator that just released on iOS. Now if you guys know about it. Yeah. Okay.
Nelson:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You play your 3 d s games and Yeah. Yeah.
Nelson:You play advanced.
Minh:Super Nintendo games and stuff. But on the buttons, like, I feel like the buttons are kind of harder or, like, the controls. That's what I've I haven't done it myself, but I've read that it's kind of tough to do the touch screen, but there's no physical buttons, you know?
Nelson:I get to relive being 12. So, I mean, my So it's worth it.
Minh:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Minh:Alright. Alright. What's your favorite Asian snack growing up or what was one of them?
Nelson:Oh, you had those, like, potato crisps. They're shaped like ovals. They'd be like fluffy and oh, okay. It's good. Yeah.
Nelson:They they they would crisp well, and I remember you used to, like, I used to dunk those and, like, eat them. And then the other one I would eat a lot is they had these, like, beef jerky bites that were in, like, candy wrappers that I had in China. They would always give me diarrhea. I don't think it was the food itself. I used to eat, like, £4 of beef jerky in, like, one sitting.
Nelson:I was a very fat child. I really messed up my colon from that period, and I think that that was probably my other favorite snack.
Minh:Okay. Fair enough. Where do you have fun in Austin?
Nelson:Oh, there's this cool hotpot restaurant called soup leaf that I enjoy. There's like a really handsome manager there. I think that you can like, soon by, he'll be here once a day, probably in the morning between the hours of 11 and 3. Where do I hang out, Austin? I enjoy spending time with my entrepreneur in Austin.
Nelson:Have a friend. She has this, Omakase at home business. You know? So I've been spending time ever since I moved into town, and I think ever since she came to town, I just started reaching out to more entrepreneurs to, like, get us to hang out and, like, eat food and catch up. And so every 2 to 4 weeks, we'll do, like, a lunch at an Asian restaurant and just catch up.
Nelson:I think that's been something that's been very interesting. It's just meeting, getting closer with these little entrepreneurs.
Minh:So. Yeah. That sounds good. That's really good. Community.
Minh:That's the through line here, building community. Nelson, yeah, I appreciate you jumping on this podcast with us. It's been a pleasure to get to know you a little bit more and just hear about all the great stuff that you've been able to do. So thanks for your time, man.
Nelson:Likewise. Thanks y'all. This is a great podcast. I'm so excited to listen to this.
Minh:Can you imagine working with your parents or even family in a business?
Sandra:God bless Nelson. It takes a whole another type of person to run a business with your family and do it successfully. Like, I am amazed. I applaud him, but, boy, I would need 12,000 more hours of therapy if I were going to do that with my family. And I love my family.
Sandra:Y'all listen. I love them, but no. No.
Minh:Yeah. I mean, same here, but that would be a whole new dimension to the relationship that I just can't even wrap my head around. And, and listen, we've shared on the podcast before, my parents did open a Vietnamese restaurant, but I was super young when they did. And I did technically work there. I remember like passing out checks to tables and giving them little gum as like the mint, you know?
Minh:Yeah. But was I involved in any of the other decisions around that restaurant? No, not at all. I was like 7 or 8. Yeah.
Minh:So to be involved at that capacity, the way that Nelson describes is really, really admirable, and they make it work because that Right. Workplace is so so good. I think it's For sure.
Sandra:And I while you and I may not be able to do it, I do think there's so much significance or value in kind of bridging the gap between generations, especially within our community, the Asian community of the folks that know their stuff and bring all this culture and history and us learning and absorbing and also kind of taking it to the new age. I really love this story that it's a family owned business and that they're doing it together. And I sincerely hope that this inspires more businesses like that. Yeah. With that thought, I'd love to play a little game.
Sandra:So if you had to imagine some sort of business that you're running with your family, and it may be bringing, reviving this Vietnamese restaurant or whatever, what would you run with your parents?
Minh:Oh, gosh. You know, I think it would be some sort of like I'm thinking about my dad and how he already does some emceeing and performing at restaurants and things like that. And I think it'd be a combination of that plus, like, managing that for him. Plus, my mom probably maybe these, like, experiential things, like, come hang out with us and listen to Vietnamese music, see live Vietnamese music with some English covers.
Sandra:Honestly, that would be so dope. Like, I would go.
Minh:And like, have it be a little bit modern. Like I can add some modern covers to get my dad to learn, I guess. But he'll still be able to belt his crooners and also some Vietnamese music. And my mom, I'm sure will be able to provide some nice tasty bites and things like that too. And, and then my brother as well, he's a dancer and a performer in his own right.
Minh:So I'm sure he could call up some folks too to to participate. So maybe it's something like that.
Sandra:You are inspiring me. I love that. Like, how many places can you honestly think about wanting to take your folks or your family and, like, having some sort of fun experience together. Right? Like, again, bridging bridging generations, there's just not many spots I would think about bringing my family.
Sandra:So I actually love that. So if anybody's listening and wants to steal that idea, please do.
Minh:Or invest in my idea.
Sandra:Or invest. Sorry.
Minh:But also, I don't know if I actually wanna run that. But so yeah.
Sandra:And I love your dad. I think he would be so great and so entertaining. I just think everything he does is is fun.
Minh:What about you?
Sandra:I actually and my mom claims this. You know, obviously, I'm biased, but my mom is the caterer or, like, the family cook and things like that. And she will always claim like, I could open a pho restaurant, and it would be so successful. She was like, just always, always done that. And I legitimately think she could make a killing if if she opened that.
Sandra:Now would I wanna help operate any of that? No. But she's amazing, and her egg rolls are bar none. So, yeah, I could see my mom doing that for sure.
Minh:Well, how would you help? In what capacity would you help maybe? I Not not running it, obviously, but how would you wanna
Sandra:I could use my marketing degree and put that to use and and Yeah.
Nelson:And
Sandra:help support her in that way. But yeah.
Nelson:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sandra:I think that'd be the extent of that. But That's fair. Anyway. Yeah.
Minh:Yeah. So if you haven't checked it out already, this is your sign to go and check out Soupleaf and stay tuned to their next hopeful venture as well and what they got going on to bring to Austin. Thanks
